reddit的贴子，英文的……

SMT really should not be afraid to tell stories post by u/KazuyaProta

感觉写得还算挺中肯。虽然我不同意他。

顺手渣翻。

小括号里的都是我的吐槽，不是翻译。

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SMT really should not be afraid to tell stories

《真女神系列也是时候试一下好好讲故事了》

They have worsened instead of improved.

新作的故事没有更好，反而更糟了。

Now that SMT V is out, the overall consensus is that mechanically and graphically, its the ultimate Shin Megami Tensei experience. But that the plot is lacking...even by SMT standards.

《真女神转生5》发售啦，机制玩法和画质美术大受好评，当之无愧系列最佳。但说到故事情节……糟透了。即使放在真女神系列里，也堪称最糟。

Unlike his most famous spin-off Persona, SMT isn't know for doing characterization, but even when compared to other games, SMT V is...odd.

和Persona相比，真女神的故事写作糟透了，完全不懂怎么写人物。即使不拿业界标杆Persona来比，也依旧一言难尽。

But this isn't a issue started on V, but rather is a issue carried somehow...since the SNES era.

这不是5代才开始有的趋向。这其实也可以说是超任时代传承下来的……某种类似“传统”的东西。

SMT I and II have some of the most ambitious stories ever told in a SNES game, the amount of stuff in those games is massive and notorious. The destruction of Tokyo, the Great Flood, Tokyo Destinyland, the rise of Tokyo Millenium and its graphic social division, Zayin's rebellion, Aleph's travel to the Abyss, the rampage of Kuzuryu, the Meggido Ark destroying Earth and a New Eden.

真1真2剧情很牛逼，震撼了时代（省略若干字）

A lot of those moments are iconic and have continued to be rehashed on other games...and that is the issue.

不少设定太过经典，成为了后来作品难以摆脱的传统。这就是问题所在。

（呃，这情况，和时之笛和FF7差不多嘛……）

A lot of SMT IV and V rehash the past games a lot.

4代二部曲本身就是对古典的一场致敬。

Nocturne and Strange Journey got praise by telling original stories, even with my own complains over them.

3代和奇妙之旅尝试摆脱古典传统，做了新的尝试，大家很喜欢。我抱怨过，但我也喜欢。

I don't even have issues with IV rehashing some plots of the first games, as IV was openly a sort of "grand return to the basics" and IVA, while criticized for its overuse of anime tropes, actually did the impossible and actually added more stuff to the franchise' lore by explaining more about the setting instead of leaving it on vague lines spoken by a boss.

4代致敬古典，我完全没意见。4代的立项概念就是“回归古典”嘛。至于4A呢，虽然突然一股浓浓的少年日漫臭味，但对4代来讲算是带来了一股新鲜空气，而且在世界设定上还做了许多意想不到的扩展。

（是啊，谁能想到只不过是4代中立结局的一条小小的if线竟能展开这么多新反派势力变成这么宏大的故事呢）

You expect the writers of V to avoid the issues of IVA of using too much of a lighthearted tone on a mainline SMT while keeping a engaging story, right?

你以为5代会在4A的基础上有所改善？继续发扬4A的角色塑造，但这次将故事写得更硬、更成年化一些？

（说中了！我在发售之前，也是这么以为的！！我也以为他们会在4代二部曲的方向上走下去）

No. Most bosses are basically checkpoints as you advance on the story. You can beat the Minotaur/ Matador equivalent of the game and even then, you don't even get a clue of what's up. Its only after several hours of game where you actually get the stuff happening.

想得美。5代里，就连boss也全部是工具人。开局不久，你打了新手村boss（3代是斗牛士、4代是米诺陶、5代是九头蛇），打过去了，但你不明所以，不知道九头蛇是干嘛的，甚至不知道你在干嘛。直到很久很久之后，你依旧不知道你在干嘛。

And when watched back to back without the open space of gameplay and sidequests (many of them telling larger stories and character arcs that our own protagonists), the story is...amazingly rushed.

第一张大地图的流程中，撇开开放式地图探索的部分和少量支线，什么都没有发生。故事？约等于不存在。

（我的个人游戏体验是，第一张大地图用了我20个小时，主要游戏内容都是在大旷野地图探险寻宝，类似旷野之息；流程方面，头10小时通过东京铁塔，出新手村；第20个小时抵达第一个大地图的终点，打关底boss女娲。从开局创毗登场到打败女娲，这之间，除了支线，几乎没有剧情。我甚至不知道“创毗”是啥，只知道有个长得很萌的小跟班喜欢我）

The new Alignment reps are Dazai, Yuzuru and Yakumo.

5代的三个“路线代表”，分别是太宰、敦田、八云。

Of them, the only one that genuinely has an arc is Dazai, who is one of the most clear examples of Unintentionally Sympathetic that I've seen.

三人之中唯一有“故事”的，是太宰。他的情况在我看来，是很典型的“意外走红”。

The game does a lot of things to paint Dazai badly, from admitting that he allowed his crush to be bullied out of fear and his loyalty to Abdiel being shown as him openly renouncing his free will. Heck, even his transformation into a full Law follower is basically the game admitting that they don't know how to handle Law without being antagonistic towards it.

Dazai starts to scream about how Humanity needs a single God and that he wants to provide them with that, he throws his hat and sickles his head as Abdiel gives him a unexplained holy glow-up to turn Dazai from a dorky youtuber into a anime villain Chad face before he does a evil laught.

（为了不剧透，这段我就不翻译了……总之他是说，秩序线代表太宰被塑造为反派形象，但深受玩家喜爱）

SMT does portray Law negatively, but Dazai doing a evil laught as he plans to take over the world is so over the top even by those standards (and weird, as Law usually is characterized for their stoicism and coldness).

真女神系列的剧本一向喜欢妖魔化秩序派。即使传统如此，这次的太宰“觉醒”那一幕，也太夸张了，一脸反派式奸笑，滔滔不绝对空气演讲自己的“邪恶计划”。搞啥啊？这处理挺别扭的，毕竟，秩序派的形象通常都一股斯多葛式的冷静与沉稳的啊。

（我个人倒觉得，这是5代的最成功的一处巧思——秩序派看上去像混沌派那样邪恶，混沌派看上去像秩序派那么正经）

And yet he became popular because he is the only character with a actual arc. Its that weird.

但太宰还是红了。虽然原因很奇怪。只因为他是整个故事里唯一一个“有故事”的人物。

Leaving V alone because the rant is not about V itself, SMT is a frachise that feels...self crippled.

撇开5代特有的问题。谈谈真女神整个系列。这个系列，整体上感觉……正在玩儿固步自封。

SMT 1 and 2 had some of the most wordy stories on the SNES with some cutscenes matching the scope of their plots. But since then, the franchise refuses to attempt this sort of grand storylines.

真1真2当年以规模宏大的故事与华丽的画面演出，为系列在业界确定了地位。但自那以后，系列一直都不愿意走出那个框架了。

Nocturne is deliberately minimalist, so we can allow that, I guess. IV rehashes a lot of I and II story elements, but tries its own things regarding the whole Backstory of Tokyo and Mikado, IVA does a lot of Shonen stuff, but at least tries its own stuff, so we can give them that.

3代保守尝新，我能理解。4代致敬古典，但带着新鲜设定——东京和东之御门国的“双城世界观”。4A变成了少年日漫，也至少是一股新鲜空气。我能原谅它们的守旧。至少它们去尝试了新的东西。

V seemed like a grand chance to try to reach a grand storyline that would put the game in the radar to be discussed for a long time by using the lessons learned on the IV duology (ie. Mixing a focus on a good setting and backstory with longer dialogues while avoiding the overuse of shonen tropes)...but nope, we're discussing the ethimology of the terminology more that the story itself.

5代本应是一次绝无仅有的突破机遇。他们本来可以从4代二部曲中学习，做出更有勇气的突破。但他们没有。

（我觉得贴主大概是联想到旷野之息了……）

This is why Persona has overcome Mainline, Persona actually bothers to tell stories. Yeah, I know its because the social links and the waifu simulator, but...man, I think that we discussed more the P5 lore that the SMT V lore.

结果，5代的故事寡寡，如同空壳。这就是为什么Persona后浪推前浪。我明白大家之所以喜欢Persona是因为虚拟老婆和虚拟友情，但至少……至少，现在我们谈的都是Persona5的故事，没人谈论真5的。真5没有故事可谈啊。

...This is sad.

这实在令人很遗憾。

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虽然我很多想法的出发点和他一样，但结论不同啊。我觉得真5就挺好的。我不觉得缺故事/缺角色是缺点啊。

目前暂时我还没组织好我自己的意见，就不写评测了。